14 May 1996 Den Haag
What Would You Like?
[Hari-katha spoken by Nitya Lila Pravista Om Visnupada Astottara Sata Sri Srimad Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja – Srila Gurudeva]
To listen to the audio file of this class, please click on this link:
[Srila Gurudeva addressing the audience]
Srila Gurudeva: Would you like to ask some questions or would you like to listen to the dialog between Sri Raya Ramananda Prabhu and Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu? What do you want?
Devotee: We would like to ask some questions Gurudeva, and then if you may, you can give class.
Srila Gurudeva: You can ask some questions and after having finished answering them, I will proceed with Sri Raya Ramananda Samvad. It is so beautiful. Now, you have come for what Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu has descended to give. Firstly, you can ask some questions and then I will proceed.
[Devotee asks a question, which is unclear, so Srila Gurudeva has another devotee explain the question to him]
Devotee: Maharaja, he is saying that Srila Gaura Govinda Maharaja made a statement that the Acharyas come from Bengal and Orissa. So he is asking to..
Srila Gurudeva: So his question is why he made this statement?
Devotee: Yes.
Srila Gurudeva: He has said this because Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu was born in Bengal. He also spent most of His time in Sri Jagannatha Puri dhama. So, he has said, “All Gaudiya Vaisnavas are from Bengal and Orissa.” Sri Nityananda Prabhu, Advaita Acharya, Gadadhara Pandit, Svarupa Damodara, and Jagadananda Pandit, these and most of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu’s associates were from Bengal. The rest of Mahaprabhu’s associates like Sri Raya Ramananda Prabhu, Sri Sarvabhauma Bhattacharya, Maharaja Prataparudra, Sikhi Mahiti, and Madhavi-devi, were from Orissa. They were all always following Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. For this reason, he may have said like this. You will have to consider in what connection and mood, he has said this. Everything depends on the mood.
For instance, Krishna told the gopis, “Don’t come here alone. And if you have come alone, you should return to your homes at once because it is so dark. Wild beasts are also here. So you should return.”
But, when the gopis and Krishna met in Kuruksetra, the gopis asked Krishna, “When we came to meet You in the forest of Vrindavana, You told us to not stay and return to our husbands. Why did You speak like this?”
Krishna replied, “I have never spoken like this! Indeed, I have never spoken like this! I told you all to return to your husbands, but I am your husband. So, you should stay with Me. That same night in Vrindavana, I told you that you were surrounded by dense darkness. But the forest was lit by the rays of the full moon, and the darkness was dissipated, so how could darkness exist?”
“The only wild beasts found in Vrindavana are peacocks, deer, and other beautiful animals. These animals were very helpful and favorable to us.”
On listening to Krishna speak, the gopis began to laugh. So, all statements depend on the mood of the speaker.
Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu spent twenty four years in Navadvipa, playing and performing His pastimes as a boy and a teacher. He performed His human-like pastimes in Navadvipa. In Jagannatha Puri, He tasted the three special characteristics of the love of Srimati Radhika.
So, he has said like so. Vaisnavas from Vrindavana are also to be included in the group of Vaisnavas from Navadvipa and Jagannatha Puri. But this was hidden. Those who love Navadvipa and Jagannatha Puri must also love Vrindavana, because all is centralized in Vrindavana. Wherever you live in Navadvipa, you will have to remember the pastimes of Krishna and the gopis. If you live in Jagannatha Puri dhama, especially in the Gambira, you will only remember the pastimes of Krishna in your heart. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, playing the role of Srimati Radhika, only thought of Vrindavana during his residence in the Gambhira.
So, he has made this statement. You should not have any doubt in his words. Do you have any more questions?
Devotee: [Indistinct]
Srila Gurudeva to Pundarika Prabhu: You should stay close to me. Then the question can be translated into Hindi. What will you do sitting there?
Pundarika Prabhu: I am trying to make way for people.
Srila Gurudeva: You are like a mad man.
[Laughter]
What is his question?
Devotee 2: He said some Maharaja is coming to Holland and he is supporting this idea that devotees should not go to you. So he is asking how he should approach this person or how he should disregard him.
Srila Gurudeva: You should not disregard or discard anyone. It is their (the devotees who are discouraging other devotees from seeing Gurudeva) duty to disregard. But your duty is to honor all, with a very broad mind, and to be liberal like Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and Nityananda Prabhu. Sri Nityananda Prabhu approached Jaghai-Madhai and told them to chant Hare Krishna, despite the obstinacy of the two brothers. They were ready to kill Sri Nityananda Prabhu. Madhai attacked Sri Nityananda Prabhu with a clay pot and Nityananda Prabhu’s forehead started to bleed. Despite being attacked, Nityananda Prabhu pleaded to Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and said, “You should please forgive them.”
So, you should pray to Nityananda Prabhu. They have affection for Krishna, Caitanya Mahaprabhu, and the devotees but their heart is not clear. There may be something undesirable in them, but you should tolerate and forgive them.
I pray to Krishna and Caitanya Mahaprabhu that they be rectified. And mercy should be bestowed on them, by which they will honor all Vaisnavas. A day will come when they will realize, and they will weep for this. Otherwise, they cannot proceed an inch in the realm of bhakti.
So, you should pray, “Oh Prabhu! Oh Krishna! Oh Caitanya Mahaprabhu! Oh Nityananda Prabhu! You should have mercy on them.”
Don’t try to take revenge, or dishonor others. A man can only be conquered by love and affection. Their hearts cannot be conquered by anger, and ill-treatment. If certain individuals bound by the lower modes of nature are engaged in committing offenses, then you should offer your pranamas (obeisance) from a distance. You should not associate with them. Wait until they are turned and their natures change.
Do you have any more questions?
Devotee: Maharaja, you explained that we should not worship Dvarakadisa Krishna, that we should worship Nanda-Nandana..
Srila Gurudeva: No. I have not told like so. I have said, “Those who are qualified to engage in arcana of Dvarakadisa, must worship Him accordingly. Those who are qualified to worship Krishna as Brahma (the Supreme Spirit) must worship Him as such. Those who are qualified to serve Ramachandra must worship Ramachandra. You should not hate them. You should not engage in any ill behavior towards them. We should give proper honor to them. But when we will be tatasta (neutral) and deeply reflect, we will realize that the service of the Divine Couple is the topmost of all services. We should help them like how Caitanya Mahaprabhu and Rupa Gosvami helped. How did they help?
Among the three brothers—Srila Rupa Gosvami, Sanatana Gosvami, and Anupama Prabhu—Anupama Prabhu was the youngest. But he was attached to Rama. He would always worship Rama. One day, Rupa Gosvami told him, “Krishna is Svayam Bhagavan, and He is the root of all incarnations. He is sarves-varesvara. The manifestation of Krishna is Rama. There is no difference at all between Rama and Krishna. Krishna is also Rama. When Krishna is seen by the eyes of maryada (reverence) and opulence, then He is seen in the form of Rama.” On certain days like the astami (eighth day), navami (ninth day), dasami (tenth day), portions of the moon are seen. But the “moons” seen on different days are not separate. The shadow of the earth covers the moon and as a result, different phases of the moon are seen. If you pierce through the coverings of the sky, you will see the moon standing still in its position with no diminution of size. Likewise, when a man has regard for Krishna and wants to serve like Hanuman; he will see Krishna in the form of Rama. When Hanuman will see Srimati Radhika and Krishna, he will not see Them as They are. He will see Krishna as Rama, having the bow and arrows. And on His left side, Hanuman will see Sita. Many similar examples have been given in Sri Brihad Bhagavatamrita.
If anyone is qualified, then coupled with the degree of his devotion mixed with maryada (reverence or veneration), he will see Krishna as Rama. Krishna is seen as Rukmini-Dvarakadisa, when the degree of maryada is lessened, but is coupled with a mood that predominates over madhurya (sweetness). The devotee of this qualification will see Krishna seated on the chariot with Arjuna. He is bound to see Krishna in this way.
So, Srila Rupa Gosvami told Anupama Prabhu, “Rama has no rasa. He cannot dance. In his entire life, Rama has never danced, even in His home. He cannot dance with His brothers—Lakshmana, Bharatha, and Shatrugna. He does not know how to dance.” Krishna can fight and vanquish many demons like how Rama did, but Krishna can dance sweetly with His sakhas like Subala, and Sridhama and especially with the gopis. Krishna can sing so sweetly but we have not heard of Rama singing sweetly. Rama has no bosom friends. He cannot embrace anyone. He will not embrace Vibhisana, or even Lakshmana. If He will embrace Sita, He will do so in a quiet, lonely place, within any room during the night. But He will never do so within the sight of others. Rama has no bosom friends like the friends of Krishna in Vraja. On seeing Rama, Vibhisana will pay his respects, and say, “Oh Prabhu!” Sugriva and Rama made a fire sacrifice and took a vow that said, “Now we are friends.” But Sugriva never sat on Rama’s throne or bed. Sugriva is a dasa (servant) of Rama.
Similarly, in the pastimes of Dvarakadisa, His associates like Akrura and Uddhava are also servants. Moreover, he is the sakha (friend) and prime minister of Krishna, who gives advice to Him. He is Krishna’s everything but He cannot sit with Krishna and embrace Him. He cannot give his remnants to Krishna. He is bound to have some maryada. He cannot transgress the mood of dignity that Krishna, the Lord of lords has. The Lord of Dvaraka knows everything, He never forgets anything. But in Vraja, Krishna’s omniscience is forgotten by everyone—including Krishna. The Vrajavasis like the sakhas play with Krishna and tumble on each other in their frolicsome games. They will give their remnants to Krishna. They are always like this. If Krishna is sleeping, Madhumangala and Subala will go and address Krishna as, “O Sale!” Do you know what this means? It is a gali, an abuse of Vraja. If Krishna is still sleeping, He will be shook from His slumber by His dear friends. They will exclaim, “Get up! Hurry! The cows are waiting.” Any of the residents of Dvaraka cannot behave with Krishna in this way. In their Krishna dasya (the inherent nature of servitude to Krishna), every soul has a special relationship with Krishna. By their svarupa (intrinsic nature), every soul is a servant of Krishna. Subala and Sridhama are also a special kind of servants. So are Yasoda Maiya and Nanda Baba. The gopis are the dasis (maidservants) of Krishna. Though Garga rsi, Sandilya rsi, and Sandipani muni are the gurus of Krishna in His pastimes, they are His eternal servants. All are the servants of Krishna. But, in the dictionary of Goloka Vrindavana, the word “dasa” (servant) and “dasi” (maidservant) do not exist. There, everyone is addressed as, “Sakhi, sakha, mother, and other names filled with sweetness.”
If anyone is the servant of Dvarakadisa by his constitutional position, then he will be fixed in the worship of Dvarakadisa. We should not interfere with his worship. We should duly regard them, like how Gopa-kumara did. We have so much regard for Uddhava, but we don’t want to be like Uddhava. We want to be the maidservant of Srimati Radhika and serve Her under the guidance of Rupa-manjari, Rati-manjari, Lalita, and Visaka. According to the constitution of their atma (soul), some souls may be the servant of Rama. You should not deter them from their worship.
So, Rupa Gosvami told Anupama Prabhu, “Rama cannot dance. He has no sakha (friend). In the relationship to Rama, Vatsalya bhava is reduced to half. It is not full. So, you should try to serve the Divine Couple—Sri Radha and Krishna.”
Anupama Prabhu replied, “You are my guru and my elder brother also. From tomorrow, I will worship Sri Radha and Krishna.” Anupama Prabhu then proceeded to take rest. Contemplating on the object of his worship, he began to weep.
He tearfully thought, “How can I leave the lotus feet of Rama? If I do so, I will die at once.”
Anupama Prabhu spent the entire duration of the night—sleepless. In the morning, he went to Srila Rupa Gosvami and fell flat at his lotus feet. He said, “You are my Gurudeva and elder brother. I want to always obey you, but I cannot obey this order of yours. I cannot leave the service of Rama. If I forsake His seva, I will die at once.” Anupama Prabhu then began to weep loudly.
Rupa Gosvami embraced him and said, “You are the best and bonafide devotee. You should not give up the service of Rama. You should continue serving His lotus feet.”
After some time, when the brothers were on their way to Jagannatha Puri to meet Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, Anupama Prabhu thought, “In this life, I cannot abandon the worship of Sri Rama. So, I must die and through sadhu sanga, I will cultivate the worship of Sri Radha and Krishna from the beginning of my next life.”
Determined to fulfill this resolve, Anupama Prabhu left his body in the middle of the way. After performing the last rites of his brother, Rupa Gosvami went to meet Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu alone.
A similar pastime also manifested between Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and Sri Murari Gupta. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu told Murari Gupta, “Krishna is the root of all manifestations. Krishna is Svayam Bhagavan. Rama is a manifestation of Krishna.”
Mahaprabhu said:
isvarah paramah krsnah
sac-cid-ananda-vigrahah
anadir adir govindah
sarva-karana-karanam
–Sri Brahma-samhita 5.1
[Krsna who is known as Govinda is the Supreme Godhead. He has an eternal blissful spiritual body. He is the origin of all. He has no other origin and He is the prime cause of all causes.]
Mahaprabhu also quoted the sloka of Srimad Bhagavatham:
ete camsa-kalah pumsah
krsnas tu bhagavan svayam
–Srimad Bhagavatam 1.3.28
[All of the above-mentioned incarnations are either plenary portions or portions of the plenary portions of the Lord, but Lord Sri Krsna is the original Personality of Godhead.]
On listening to Mahaprabhu’s instructions, Murari Gupta replied, “Yes, I will engage in the service of Krishna.”
But after making this decision, Murari Gupta did not bat an eyelid for the entire night. A sleepless night was coupled with the continuous flow of tears from his eyes. The next day, on meeting Caitanya Mahaprabhu, Murari Gupta said, “I promised to serve the Divine Couple—Sri Radha and Krishna, but I cannot engage in Their service, so I will die at once. Please excuse me and let me know on what should be done. Or else, I will go to the Ganga, jump in her waters and give my life up.”
Mahaprabhu replied, “No, no! I was simply testing you. You are Hanuman himself. You have descended to serve your Prabhu—Sri Rama, who is in Me. Your service to Your Lord is incomparable. You should never contemplate on giving up your life. I am greatly satisfied by your steadfast devotion to Rama. You should continue your service to Rama.”
Srivasa Pandit was the servant of Narayana. Vasudeva Vipra of Navadvipa was the servant of Varahadeva. The devotees of different incarnations and the incarnations Themselves collectively gathered in the pastimes of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Everyone was serving Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. So, we should honor the devotees of different incarnations, but we should not try to associate with them. May I tell a story about this?
Devotees: Yes!
Srila Gurudeva: But is the time over?
Devotee: You have enough time Gurudeva.
[Laughter]
Srila Gurudeva: Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and His associates like Srila Rupa Gosvami and Sanatana Gosvami left this world and entered their unmanifest pastimes. Shortly after their departure, Srila Raghunatha das Gosvami also left this world. Mahaprabhu’s disciples were not like you. For you to become a disciple a fire sacrifice needs to be arranged and mantras have to be spoken into the ear. These disciples do not require the external formalities of initiation to be considered as disciples. So, who is a disciple? What is the criterion for a devotee to become a disciple? Srila Rupa Gosvami and Sanatana Gosvami were the disciples of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. And Rupa Gosvami was the disciple of Srila Sanatana Gosvami. There was no fire sacrifice conducted, and no mantras given. So how is Rupa Gosvami considered a disciple? Those who follow their Gurudeva’s actions and services to Krishna by all their hearts—are certainly the real disciples of Gurudeva. The disciple who follows Gurudeva by all his heart is a vidvad-rudhi disciple. His acceptance and service to Gurudeva is factual. Rupa Gosvami is vidvan (learned). All the Acharyas of our disciplic order are vidvad, they practically know all the services and perform them with all their hearts. Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura is not a diksa sisya (initiated disciple) of Srila Jagannatha das Babaji Maharaja. But he is the only disciple of Srila Jagannatha das Babaji Maharaja because he actually followed all his instructions and the process of loving service to Krishna.
If you genuinely follow a personality’s personal conduct and line of thought, then you are truly his disciple. If you have taken initiation from someone, but you are not following him, then you are not worthy of being called that personality’s disciple. Formally or externally, you will be called his disciple. Those who are foolish, ignorant, or kanista (the novice) will tell, “Bhaktivinoda Thakura is not a disciple of Jagannatha das Babaji Maharaja. Neither were Rupa Gosvami and Sanatana Gosvami the disciples of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu.”
You should know what constitutes real initiation. Is reciting the mantras into the ear, real initiation? A person who is externally initiated, but is not heartily adopting the principles, activities, teachings, and behavior of his guru, is not really a disciple. Who was the guru of Sri Haridasa Thakura? Who has he taken initiation from? But Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu made him “Namacharya” (Preceptor of the holy name). Who was the Gurudeva of Sri Svarupa Damodara Gosvami? The foolish cannot tell. But, those who know the fact, they can tell. Caitanya Mahaprabhu is really the guru of Sri Svarupa Damodara Gosvami. And in another sense, Caitanya Mahaprabhu is the disciple of Visaka who is Sri Raya Ramananda Prabhu in Caitanya lila. Actually, Caitanya Mahaprabhu is the guru of Raya Ramananda Prabhu. Sri Svarupa Damodara took vesh (sannyasa cloth) from a mayavadi sannyasi. Caitanya Mahaprabhu and Madhvacharya took sannyasa from mayavadi sannyasis. But these personalities were not mayavadis (impersonalists). They only took the sannyasa dress from mayavadis. Svarupa Damodara Gosvami took all the instructions and personal conduct of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu in his heart. So, he is indeed a disciple of Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Accordingly, Rupa-Sanatana took initiation from Caitanya Mahaprabhu, not outwardly, as seen by the eyes of the foolish. But actually, Uttama bhagavats can realize all these truths. We should try to understand all these considerations.
I told my Gurudeva once, “If I want to be the disciple of Srila Rupa Gosvami, then is there any harm?”
Srila Gurudeva replied, “Very good! Very good! Madhvacharya appeared five thousand years after Sri Vyasadeva. But despite this gap of five thousand years between them, Madhvacharya became the disciple of Vyasadeva. So, why can’t we be the disciple of Srila Rupa Gosvami? Rupa Gosvami has never died. We can follow his instructions and behavior—external and internal. By following him in both ways, we can be the disciple of Srila Rupa Gosvami.”
So, we should pray to realize all these devotional truths. We should understand them fully, from the core of our hearts.
Srila Raghunatha Gosvami was initiated by Yadunandana Acharya. But he has many gurus. He is the disciple of Sri Haridasa Thakura. Do you know why? Sri Haridasa Thakura gave his association to Srila Raghunatha das Gosvami, since Raghunatha das Gosvami was a small boy. Haridasa Thakura inspired Raghunatha das Gosvami to chant harinama like him. Later, Raghunatha das Gosvami went to Svarupa Damodara. Caitanya Mahaprabhu took the hands of Raghunatha das Gosvami and placed it in the hands of Svarupa Damodara and told Raghunatha das Gosvami, “Now you are of Svarupa Damodara.” Srila Raghunatha das Gosvami imbibed all devotional moods from Svarupa Damodara and he became a disciple of Svarupa Damodara. But he did not leave his original gurus—Yadunandana Acharya and Haridasa Thakura. He added their moods, conceptions, and personal conduct to his own bhajan and this is not wrong. When he came to Vrindavana, he followed Caitanya Mahaprabhu’s instruction where Mahaprabhu stated, “After I enter My unmanifest pastimes, you should go to Vrindavana and stay under the guidance of Rupa-Sanatana. Especially go to Rupa, he is your Gurudeva.” Srila Raghunatha das Gosvami always treated Srila Rupa Gosvami as his Gurudeva. Srila Raghunatha das Gosvami has glorified Rupa Gosvami as his guru in Vilapa Kusumanjali and many other books. He could forget everyone, but he would never forget Srila Rupa Gosvami.
In one of his prayers of Vilapa Kusumanjali, Srila Raghunatha das Gosvami has prayed, “Sri Rupa manjari prathita kurusmen…”
The meaning of this prayer is very deep, mysterious, and confidential. It is not to be told openly. Because if the leaders of Iskcon listen to the meaning, they will say, “Oh he has committed an offense because in this world, there is no one qualified to hear.”
“Then why have these confidential pastimes been manifested. These pastimes have been mentioned in Sri Caitanya Caritamrita and other scriptures, so why did they write these pastimes in their books? They have committed an offense, and not us.”
[Laughter]
“Rupa Gosvami has committed an offense; Srila Krishna dasa Kaviraja Gosvami has committed an offense, so have Vyasadeva and Sukadeva Gosvami. You can ask them and not us!”
[Laughter]
Everyone is qualified to listen to these pastimes, if they have some greed. How will a devotee progress in his devotional life, if none of these pastimes are spoken?
There is a very sweet, succulent mango hanging from the branch of a tree. It is matured and rasa (juice) is coming out. A parrot can taste and relish this mango; not camels and crows. They will instead go to a neem tree and chew the bitter neem leaves instead of the juicy, succulent mangoes. They are bound to go there. So, it has been said in Caitanya Caritamrita that devotees like these mangoes of sweet devotion. They should be told and by aural reception, a taste will arise to listen to these pastimes. Otherwise, unqualified camel and crow like people will certainly not come to listen to these pastimes. They will be far away, in the forest of neem and babul trees. Do you know what a babul tree is? It is a thorny tree.
[Laughter]
tvam rupa-manjari sakhi prathita pure’smin
pumsah parasya vadanam na hi pasyasiti
bimbadhare ksatam anagata-bhartrkaya
yat te vayadhayi kim u tac chuka-pungavena
–Sri Vilapa-kusumanjali 1
[“My dear friend Rupa-manjari! You are well known in Vraja for your chastity; you don’t even look at the faces of other men. It is therefore surprising that although your husband is not at home, your lips, which are as beautiful as red bimba fruits, have been bitten. Has this perhaps been done by the best of parrots?”]
Srila Raghunatha das Gosvami prays, “I bow down to Srila Rupa Gosvami. He is my Gurudeva. Actually, he is not Rupa Gosvami, he is Rupa-manjari. She is famous in the entire land of Vraja, for her chastity. Her chastity is never broken. Except for her husband, she doesn’t see anyone’s face. She duly engages in service to her husband. But presently, her husband has gone to buy some cows and he has been out of the village for many days. But I see a bite mark on her lips, how did this come to be? Perhaps, a parrot has falsely understood Rupa-manjari’s lips to be a bimba fruit.”
This fruit is very reddish. It resembles the lips of a beautiful lady. So, he must have come and bit her lips.
On listening to this prayer, Rupa Gosvami became astonished and overjoyed. A smile decorated his moon like face. This is the best pranama mantra to Srila Rupa Gosvami. This sloka doesn’t imply to Yadunandana Acharya or Haridasa Thakura. Haridasa Thakura cannot reach there. He should stay up to Vaikuntaloka. And he should engage in the act of creation. Uddhava cannot come here. Srila Raghunatha das Gosvami’s first guru, Yadunandana Acharya was a very good devotee of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Haridasa Thakura is also like that. Svarupa Damodara was in the category of the asta-sakhis (eight principle friends of Srimati Radhika), and a very dear friend of Srimati Radhika. Svarupa Damodara is Lalita sakhi in Krishna lila and she is like a nayika (heroine). So, Srila Raghunatha das Gosvami does not think of him as a guru. He only thinks of Srila Rupa Gosvami as his guru—guru-sakhi. And he prayed like this.
If anyone adopts the sweet moods of a higher personality, and whole heartedly follows his moods and conceptions; he is really a bonafide disciple. But despite being initiated a hundred times, or even a lakh times, but without knowing the mood of the guru, diksa is incomplete and in vain.
[Transcribed by the Bhaktabandhav Team]